xp sucks as a mechanic
It's unrealistic, turns game into accounting that consumes game time and needs spreadsheets to calculate
Heroism is suffering for the benefit of the community and power to overcome enemies not grubbing for cash or murder heists
Gold and murder xp are just creating colonialism and making murder hobos more likely
Runequest and pendragon does it better - levels as a game idea do suck a bit
I like in 5th ed has classes with same xp table which is better than separate ones. Id rather classes be balanced so thieves got more hp than double level ups of other characters.
Ive done fine with no xp for 35 years - im in a game now thats first to use xp since 80s it sucks. Does the dm need to audit everyone's xp accounting too? It opens doors for cheating and error when everyone has different amounts.
I liked Rolemaster gave xp for dying and some other stuff.
2nd ed tried to have class-specific rewards but players grasping for a few extra xp is painful. If you do have xp id rather it be in a few points not tens of thousands like DCC or Star Frontiers so the accounting phase is simpler. Money records are bad enough. The higher level you go the more xp and gold accounting and spreadsheets you need. Games are simplifying maths but still use huge xp scores.
Milestone levelling makes you achieve stuff in the setting. Its clear - break the dungeon, you get a level. Saking the kingdom is a better goal than wealth or muscular power fantasies. Some games force you to carouse for xp but what if your hero does not drink or party and wants to study instead? All systems of reward are also of systems of punishment to some degree. Why not reward exploration? Or the damage you took? Or how close you got to death? If you did do something cool or funny? XP is a waste of time at the table. Im fine with horror resourceism based on goods to survive. I dont think xp helps that do that convincingly. I'd rather advancement be a reward for bringing about campaign setting changes, not just accounting for robbery and murder. I could just have a shop and rack up xp with less risk because we all know old businessmen are the most physically powerful people in the world.
I mentioned RQ experience, but I also liked TSR Marvel, where you could get spot rewards for meeting your aunt for lunch in play, which often meant you had to save her when some villain turns up and keep your identity. We gave small instant spot karma points for cool dialogue and the game discourages bean-counting for money. Money is best when you spend it on charity for karma. Yes it simulates comic code ethics if 80s and Wolverine killing ppl made your whole party lose karma. Other in game rewards like inspiration in 5th I disliked but under 2024 version its a bit better and players can make them other ways and use for teamwork. Some games you spend xp on character buff by points but some you can spend xp as a in-game resource, which is more interesting.
Feel free to fight me below in the comments below
It's unrealistic, turns game into accounting that consumes game time and needs spreadsheets to calculate
Heroism is suffering for the benefit of the community and power to overcome enemies not grubbing for cash or murder heists
Gold and murder xp are just creating colonialism and making murder hobos more likely
Runequest and pendragon does it better - levels as a game idea do suck a bit
I like in 5th ed has classes with same xp table which is better than separate ones. Id rather classes be balanced so thieves got more hp than double level ups of other characters.
Ive done fine with no xp for 35 years - im in a game now thats first to use xp since 80s it sucks. Does the dm need to audit everyone's xp accounting too? It opens doors for cheating and error when everyone has different amounts.
I liked Rolemaster gave xp for dying and some other stuff.
2nd ed tried to have class-specific rewards but players grasping for a few extra xp is painful. If you do have xp id rather it be in a few points not tens of thousands like DCC or Star Frontiers so the accounting phase is simpler. Money records are bad enough. The higher level you go the more xp and gold accounting and spreadsheets you need. Games are simplifying maths but still use huge xp scores.
Milestone levelling makes you achieve stuff in the setting. Its clear - break the dungeon, you get a level. Saking the kingdom is a better goal than wealth or muscular power fantasies. Some games force you to carouse for xp but what if your hero does not drink or party and wants to study instead? All systems of reward are also of systems of punishment to some degree. Why not reward exploration? Or the damage you took? Or how close you got to death? If you did do something cool or funny? XP is a waste of time at the table. Im fine with horror resourceism based on goods to survive. I dont think xp helps that do that convincingly. I'd rather advancement be a reward for bringing about campaign setting changes, not just accounting for robbery and murder. I could just have a shop and rack up xp with less risk because we all know old businessmen are the most physically powerful people in the world.
I mentioned RQ experience, but I also liked TSR Marvel, where you could get spot rewards for meeting your aunt for lunch in play, which often meant you had to save her when some villain turns up and keep your identity. We gave small instant spot karma points for cool dialogue and the game discourages bean-counting for money. Money is best when you spend it on charity for karma. Yes it simulates comic code ethics if 80s and Wolverine killing ppl made your whole party lose karma. Other in game rewards like inspiration in 5th I disliked but under 2024 version its a bit better and players can make them other ways and use for teamwork. Some games you spend xp on character buff by points but some you can spend xp as a in-game resource, which is more interesting.
Feel free to fight me below in the comments below
In my 5e game I award XP when a PC goes to 0 HP or fails a death save. So easy fights won't get you anything.
ReplyDeleteI'm not really into XP as an incentive to do things you want to do anyway (win fights, get money). I started awarding XP for failing tests in WFRP and it worked well, so I kept the XP-for-failure thing going in 5e.
Milestones I can't really wrap my head around, at least not in a sandbox game. It feels a little too arbitrary for me exactly what is a milestone, what can the players expect to get rewarded for, what if they only beat half the dungeon/save half the kingdom... But I could do a campaign with milestones around a central theme, like you gain a level when you beat one of the thirteen demon lords, or when you collect a part of the rod of seven parts or something.
i some sand boxes i give checklists of campagn goals - dungeons de[pends on the size. it might be a level or whole dungeon depends on size. ultimatley changing the world is the main way.
Deletein a short campagn or hard to get together im more generous - in a long game id rather draw out lower levekls as they are the most fun
No fighting here. I'm on your side. I get that gold-as-xp serves as yet another abstraction in the RPG world, but milestones or completed adventures makes more concrete sense. To me, at least.
ReplyDeleteyes - thank you for comment
DeleteYou ought to look into how GURPS handles character points, their answer to XP. Sure, it still puts an accounting feature to the character, but it instead becomes a straight measure of the character's general value, with points awarded as the GM sees fit, and even subtracted — permanent injuries can result in Disadvantages, and there's no requirement for the GM to let the player reinvest the points!
ReplyDeletei liked gurps 1st to 3rd ed
Deleteespecially the setting books i have 50 of
im a bit over point buy games and weaponising disabilities - whole parties of ppl who should be on pensions